Adam and Jeremy Say: Abortion Debate...

Adam: Berg, on Monday I participated the March For Life in Washington D.C. I was offering my support of the pro life cause; what are your thoughts on abortion?

Jeremy: Hate it. And I think this is an issue we can argue without really getting into religious beliefs. I mean if I was totally honest, I would say that God creates every fetus because he wants to. Therefore, abortion is murder because it ends a life that God ordained and created in his image.
If I am going to be against abortion in the political/social world, I have to look at it differently. Because for the same reasons I don't want Muslims forcing their beliefs on me, I don't want to force my religious beliefs on anyone else. So, I'm sure murder is defined by the dictionary as the killing of any human person. But, I think the US Constitution actually limits illegal murder to the killing of another US citizen. From there, I think it goes to define a US citizen and anyone born in the US, which obviously excludes fetuses. But in the same way I don't have the moral right to go kill my immigrant friend(not born in the US), I should not have the moral right to kill a fetus.

The word on the street is that a fetus is not actually a human. So, just like you can kill a plant, deer, virus, or any other living thing, you can also kill a fetus. Can you see how ridiculous that sounds? That just because a baby is not born, it makes it non-human. Insane! We all know that humans can survive outside the womb many days before the average "due date". I don't know the survival cut off date for a fetus to be able to live outside the womb, but I would assume that you are not allowed to abort a baby if it is past that date.

It comes down to when do you think the soul of a person is introduced to the flesh? (if you don't think humans have souls, then we are no different than a plant, and referring to the paragraph above, I would then have the moral freedom to kill you). I remember thinking through that, and the only strong defining moments I found in a fetuses life are the heartbeat, brainwaves, and conception. Well, we all know that people can have their heart stopped, and be brought back to life, so I ruled that one out. Then, I got thinking about how brainwaves have been detected in strange places throughout medical history, so I don't place a lot of value in brainwaves as being a defining moment of "life". That only leaves one other option. Conception. Human life must begin at conception.


Adam: First as a Christian I agree that my morality is totally based on Gods law and His will, which I believe to be the absolute truth, but I also believe that those who do not have fellowship with God cannot complete comprehend this and so it would not be fair of me to force Gods law on people (as you said) but I do think as a person in fellowship with God I have the mandate to advocate for Gods laws, and to try and explain who God is and why others should join in fellowship with Him (and consequently follow his law.) So it’s harder for me to look at this topic objectively, but I don't think its impossible.

Abortion shows a lack of intellectual honesty and personal responsibility while at the same time it displays a wealth of selfishness and Pride.

Scientifically the abortion debate hinges on the fact that, according to pro-abortion scientist, a fetus in the womb is not a human life. I don't agree; I could try and go into the talk about how in the first trimester a baby’s heart is beating and its brain is working and things like that, but I am not an expert so I will sum it up like this: Based on scientific data I do not think you can make a case for human life starting at birth. PreBorn children are human lives as well and I think you are deceiving yourself if you can look at the evidence at believe otherwise.

Let me make an aside here: I do not think its possible even for those who support abortion early in pregnancy to support partial birth abortion without lying to themselves. The practice of delivering a child half way and stabbing his/her skull with scissors is barbaric and can not be condoned by anyone.

I completely agree that women should have a right to chose. They have the right to chose partners, the right to chose to have or not to have sex, the right to chose birth control methods, but I think that right to chose ends when another human life is involved. In the case of abortion I feel as if people do not want to take responsibility for the choices they have made; I mean if you screw up and get drunk with some guy you don't like and then have sex and subsequently get pregnant that was a series of bad choices, but at some point you have to take responsibility for those bad choices, you can not just kill a preborn child and solve your problem.

This lack of personal responsibility is directly related to selfishness. We want to do what is "best" for us (lets not get into the mental and physical health issues that most women suffer because of their abortions.) I equate this type of selfishness to slavery. When our country was founded most intellectually honest people would admit (maybe only to themselves) that owning another person was not right, but the wealth and prosperity they enjoyed because of the "free" labor provided by slaves made it appealing for them to continue the practice of slavery. Their selfishness is the sole reason it took nearly 100 years for our independent country to stop the practice of slavery. And, with abortion the practice is even worse because in this case the “slaves” do not even have a chance to live, they don't have a chance to hope for freedom, the don't have a chance to experience life period, I can think of no more insipid a practice or unjust a fate.

As is the case with all sin the root of the issue can be traced to pride. We as a people have decided that we are so great that we can choose life or death. We have decided that we are so smart that we can tell you when the life of a child inside a mother's womb begins. We decide that we are so important that we cannot be bothered by trivial matters, and inconveniences like CHILDREN. And of course as a Christian I am doubly insulted that we would think ourselves so great that we could decree that an entire nation may mock the word of God and ignore His law in destroying human life.

Just thinking about this issue gets me so fired up that I wear myself out. I don't understand how people cannot see that abortion is the murder of a child, but maybe that's my fault. Whatever the case I think it's important that we not only be conscious objectors but I also think it imperative that we offer a solution. As I stated before as a Christian I would want people to have fellowship with God and to follow God's law, but I know that is a large task that only God can accomplish, and until that comes to fruition I think it is crucial that we offer alternatives to abortion. Most importantly I think we should be addressing adoption. If someone truly feels that they cannot handle a child then I would beg them to give that Child up for adoption. There are many people out there who cannot have children and want to adopt, and there are a growing number of people like my wife and I that want to adopt along with naturally birthed children. I think its time for the pro life community to start putting some real teeth into the adoption option. I think we need to push the government to make adoption a financial option for all families and not just those who currently can afford such an expensive and lengthy process. I think we should support agencies and ministries that are trying to make adoption a possibility for more people, and most importantly I think pro lifers should all take a hard look at adopting themselves even if they are fertile. How can you tell someone something is wrong, and there are alternatives if you are not willing to participate in that alternative yourself?

Jeremy: Me and my wife know a girl who just got an abortion a few weeks ago. It’s been tough, and the hardest part for me is holding back hateful thoughts. Her and her husband were trying so long to have a baby, and went through all this embryo implants and the whole bit. A couple months in the pregnancy, some tests came back positive for some fluid behind the baby's brain indicating a possible chromosomal defect. There's not a whole lot we can do now, but it’s just a sad story and hits close to home. It just sucks that they were going through so much to have a baby in the first place, and then after finally getting pregnant, they encounter a possible mishap, and decide its not worth it.

I imagined a scenario that if me and my wife were pregnant and had some bad test results like this, we of course would still follow through with it, and if the MD offered to terminate the baby as a service to us, I would tell him to fuck off and we would find another doctor immediately.

Adam: There are so many aspects to this issue and just preparing this post has brought all sorts of points to mind that I would love to share, but I can see that this post is already far too long. So let me implore those reading here to think this over and do some of your own research; don’t become a lemming. Here are some links that may be helpful for you:
www.all.org , www.nrlc.org , www.femministforlife.org , www.prochoice.org , www.plannedparenthood.org , www.pregnancycenters.org , www.adoption.org, www.rockforlife.org