The following is part three of a three part conversation we had regarding the American School System and Poverty and what correlations we saw between the two. Obviously this is a touchy subject, but we welcome your input.
Adam: Jeremy I applaud your optimism... but I really don't know if either of us is fit to speak to the perils of lower class communities seeing as we both have fit squarely in the middle class all of our lives.
Jeremy: Do you never imagine yourself being in terrible situations....like the ones that are too bad for people to talk about? Do you ever think about what you would do if you were in those situations and how you might get out? and then when you try to figure a way out of it come up with new obstacles that set you back even farther than when you started just to see how back it could possible get?
Adam: Yeah and I never imagine selling drugs as a solution, but that is just hypothetical... I can not base everything on “what ifs.”
Jeremy: I think you can if you really/truly try to sympathize with the situation....and sometimes you have to.
Adam: I see your point but I feel much better about things if there is statistical evidence to back it up.
Jeremy: I would too, but I don’t really trust statistical evidence unless I conduct the research myself. There seems to always be statistics that say one thing, but you look at this other study and it says the exact opposite. I do a lot of media research with my job and if no one in the world watched the hallmark channel, I could find a way to pull some research to make it seem like it is the best network and that everyone watches it.
Adam: Well then maybe statistics are just here to make people feel better about the opinions they hold.
Jeremy: sometimes. People could have opinions for anything and everything and for whatever reason. I find that people usually have opinions based on what their parents believe or from the most popular belief in their tiny sub-culture.....or the most popular, what they see on TV. In my opinion, I don’t really see any of those as great sources. Personal experience is the best resource to find any kind of truth I think.
Adam: Is your goal to experience more in light of this?
Jeremy: Definitely, but that’s not exactly easy. Man, when I was Cali’, I just soaked everything up. It was just sweet to actually see everything in person. Like the black mountain sides where the fires were a couple months ago, and the ocean really is colder out there.
Adam: That is crazy... I remember being in Arizona during wild fires... and driving down the high way and see the smoke billowing in the air...
When we originally began this conversation I think both Adam and Jeremy had some pre-conceived notions of what we thought about schools/poverty, and its obvious that this conversation did not change that, but what I think is most unsettling is how this conversation unintentionally became a commentary on the middle class mindset and the relative apathy that is show those who are disadvantaged. We hope that you come away from this with a desire to know more about the subject and not just a feeling that Adam or Jeremy was right or wrong. And ultimately we hope you come away with a desire to love and help people.
Showing posts with label Poverty. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Poverty. Show all posts
Thursday, March 22, 2007
Wednesday, March 21, 2007
Adam and Jeremy Say: Poverty and Schools Suck: Part 2
The following is part two of a three part conversation we had regarding the American School System and Poverty and what correlations we saw between the two. Obviously this is a touchy subject, but we welcome your input.
Adam: Isn't there a pattern... I mean the statistics show that if you are in the lower class you are less likely to graduate... meaning you are more likely to end up in the lower class ... its this vicious cycle we are creating of the poor getting poorer.
Jeremy: Negative. The poor people choose to be poor (for the most part. we are not talking about the .5% that don’t have any other options). It’s their fault they are in the "cycle" the good thing about our society is that it gives anyone who wants it, the opportunity to change the direction their lives are headed.
Adam: Do you believe that to be true because of statistical evidence or do you base that on anecdotal evidence from your life, your friend’s lives, and the lives of those on TV?
Jeremy: I base 95% of what I believe on the "Anecdotal evidence from my life and my friend’s lives". Everything else is not a completely trustworthy source.
Adam: Do you think that your views could be subjective and bias because of that?
Jeremy: No.
Adam: That's fair, but do you think people who live in disadvantaged neighborhoods may feel differently?
Jeremy: Yes, but that doesn’t make them right. It’s easy to sit around in a "disadvantaged neighborhood" and have a pity party, but a lot harder to fight the odds and make something of yourself. I’m not saying it’s not harder for those people, but they don’t accept the blame for themselves and try to change it from there.
Adam: Hmmm. I don't feel you are being open-minded about this particular topic... I mean have you ever been in a school that is ranked last in the state in regards to standards and graduation rates... have you ever been in a school where you have to go through a metal detector before you can enter... where the doors are locked during the day to keep out drug dealers... where drug dogs search the school at least once a week... Have you ever been so poor you can't eat? Ever been so poor you didn't have proper clothing... let along fashionable clothing... ever been so poor you have to live next door to a crack house... have you ever seen someone arrested for drug possession... have you ever reported a domestic abuse to the police?
Jeremy: Nice try. I can answer yes to a majority of those questions. South Carolina is probably still last in the nation as far as education is concerned, so I have personally experienced how crappy the schools are. I have even worked at one where the kids have either dropped out or been kicked out of every other learning institute they have been in. I didn’t personally interact with those kids, but their teachers were good friends of mine.
The point I’m trying to make: I could answer yes to all of those questions if I choose to. But I made a decision not to be a bum and sell drugs. I could still do that if I wanted, but I doubt I will.
Adam: Isn't there a pattern... I mean the statistics show that if you are in the lower class you are less likely to graduate... meaning you are more likely to end up in the lower class ... its this vicious cycle we are creating of the poor getting poorer.
Jeremy: Negative. The poor people choose to be poor (for the most part. we are not talking about the .5% that don’t have any other options). It’s their fault they are in the "cycle" the good thing about our society is that it gives anyone who wants it, the opportunity to change the direction their lives are headed.
Adam: Do you believe that to be true because of statistical evidence or do you base that on anecdotal evidence from your life, your friend’s lives, and the lives of those on TV?
Jeremy: I base 95% of what I believe on the "Anecdotal evidence from my life and my friend’s lives". Everything else is not a completely trustworthy source.
Adam: Do you think that your views could be subjective and bias because of that?
Jeremy: No.
Adam: That's fair, but do you think people who live in disadvantaged neighborhoods may feel differently?
Jeremy: Yes, but that doesn’t make them right. It’s easy to sit around in a "disadvantaged neighborhood" and have a pity party, but a lot harder to fight the odds and make something of yourself. I’m not saying it’s not harder for those people, but they don’t accept the blame for themselves and try to change it from there.
Adam: Hmmm. I don't feel you are being open-minded about this particular topic... I mean have you ever been in a school that is ranked last in the state in regards to standards and graduation rates... have you ever been in a school where you have to go through a metal detector before you can enter... where the doors are locked during the day to keep out drug dealers... where drug dogs search the school at least once a week... Have you ever been so poor you can't eat? Ever been so poor you didn't have proper clothing... let along fashionable clothing... ever been so poor you have to live next door to a crack house... have you ever seen someone arrested for drug possession... have you ever reported a domestic abuse to the police?
Jeremy: Nice try. I can answer yes to a majority of those questions. South Carolina is probably still last in the nation as far as education is concerned, so I have personally experienced how crappy the schools are. I have even worked at one where the kids have either dropped out or been kicked out of every other learning institute they have been in. I didn’t personally interact with those kids, but their teachers were good friends of mine.
The point I’m trying to make: I could answer yes to all of those questions if I choose to. But I made a decision not to be a bum and sell drugs. I could still do that if I wanted, but I doubt I will.
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
Adam and Jeremy Say: Poverty and Schools Suck: Part 1
The following is part one of a three part conversation we had regarding the American School System and Poverty and what correlations they saw between the two. Obviously this is a touchy subject, but we welcome your input.
Adam: I found this information that relates back to that study I mentioned the other week about the graduation rate of African American Males.
· The national graduation rate is 68 percent, with nearly one-third of all public high school students failing to graduate.
· Tremendous racial gaps are found for graduation rates.
§ Students from historically disadvantaged minority groups (American Indian, Hispanic, and Black) have little more than a fifty-fifty chance of finishing high school with a diploma.
§ By comparison, graduation rates for Whites and Asians are 75 and 77 percent nationally.
§ Males graduate from high school at a rate 8 percent lower than female students.
§ Graduation rates for students who attend school in high poverty, racially segregated, and urban school districts lag from 15 to 18 percent behind their peers.
§ A great deal of variation in graduation rates and gaps among student groups is found across regions of the country as well as the states
I am basically shocked that one third of high school students are not graduating. The information came from a study done by the Urban Institute
Jeremy: I don't really know what to think about this. I want to say I'm not really surprised, but it did catch me a little off guard. I can say that I'm not too worried about it. I don't think you can force teenagers to do crap they don't want to do, so if they want to drop out of school, it’s kinda their choice. I think parents should step up and take some responsibility on what their kids are doing in school, instead of passing all the responsibility onto the teachers. Education starts and finishes in the home. So unless we see some better family formation in the future, I think we will continue to see statistics like this. So when I say I'm not worried about kids dropping out, that's because I'm not worried about kids doing want they want to do. That’s going to happen. What I am disappointed in seeing is that families are not getting the focus of the discussion. And let me briefly say what I think "better family formation" is: father and mother actively involved in the lives of their children and teaching them positive morals.
Adam: Do you think this creates a cast system- those who are educated get to be part of the middle class while those who are not get to be the lower class, upon which the middle and upper class will build their own fortunes?
Jeremy: I don't know. If these kids choose to be in the lower class and upper class people make their fortunes off them, then these kids are doing what they want to do. I think that's good when people have the freedom to do what they want to do. Of course I draw the line when your choices hurt other people (murder, stealing, etc). That’s the whole point. If you have the freedom to choose, and you end up in the lower class, that because you choose to be there. Same with upper class people. They choose to work their butts off and make a fortune. Now there are obviously exceptions in both scenarios, but those are the exceptions.
Adam: I found this information that relates back to that study I mentioned the other week about the graduation rate of African American Males.
· The national graduation rate is 68 percent, with nearly one-third of all public high school students failing to graduate.
· Tremendous racial gaps are found for graduation rates.
§ Students from historically disadvantaged minority groups (American Indian, Hispanic, and Black) have little more than a fifty-fifty chance of finishing high school with a diploma.
§ By comparison, graduation rates for Whites and Asians are 75 and 77 percent nationally.
§ Males graduate from high school at a rate 8 percent lower than female students.
§ Graduation rates for students who attend school in high poverty, racially segregated, and urban school districts lag from 15 to 18 percent behind their peers.
§ A great deal of variation in graduation rates and gaps among student groups is found across regions of the country as well as the states
I am basically shocked that one third of high school students are not graduating. The information came from a study done by the Urban Institute
Jeremy: I don't really know what to think about this. I want to say I'm not really surprised, but it did catch me a little off guard. I can say that I'm not too worried about it. I don't think you can force teenagers to do crap they don't want to do, so if they want to drop out of school, it’s kinda their choice. I think parents should step up and take some responsibility on what their kids are doing in school, instead of passing all the responsibility onto the teachers. Education starts and finishes in the home. So unless we see some better family formation in the future, I think we will continue to see statistics like this. So when I say I'm not worried about kids dropping out, that's because I'm not worried about kids doing want they want to do. That’s going to happen. What I am disappointed in seeing is that families are not getting the focus of the discussion. And let me briefly say what I think "better family formation" is: father and mother actively involved in the lives of their children and teaching them positive morals.
Adam: Do you think this creates a cast system- those who are educated get to be part of the middle class while those who are not get to be the lower class, upon which the middle and upper class will build their own fortunes?
Jeremy: I don't know. If these kids choose to be in the lower class and upper class people make their fortunes off them, then these kids are doing what they want to do. I think that's good when people have the freedom to do what they want to do. Of course I draw the line when your choices hurt other people (murder, stealing, etc). That’s the whole point. If you have the freedom to choose, and you end up in the lower class, that because you choose to be there. Same with upper class people. They choose to work their butts off and make a fortune. Now there are obviously exceptions in both scenarios, but those are the exceptions.
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