Despite Adam's somewhat blatant socialist slants we here at Adam and Jeremy are convinced that the freedom of speech and the freedom of religion are two of the cornerstones of this country (USA) that actually make it great (capitalism we have our doubts about (actually Adam has his doubts about.)) The point being we are greatly alarmed about what we are hearing come out of the latest meeting between the World Council of Churches and the Vatican in Europe. The two have grouped together to create a "conversion code;" or a set of guidelines to dictate what Christians can and cannot do in the pursuit of converting people of other faiths. The two groups have decided to create this code out of fear, it appears, fear that sharing ones faith in some countries (mainly Muslim and Hindu countries) is causing negative reactions and even violence (the 23 Korean Christians captured in Afghanistan are an example they are using.)
Obviously we must oppose anything the tries to limit our freedoms of speech and our freedom to practice our faith, and that on the surface was why we initially bristled at this story, but behind that there is a more spiritual cause for our concern. The Christian faith calls its followers to share their faith with others, but it also calls the believers to live without fear; placing their trust in Christ and Christ alone, and this code represents the antithesis of this teaching. Jesus Himself told his followers that people would persecute them, in fact ten of His eleven disciples were murdered for their relationship with Him, so there should be no surprise that people would be angry when a Christian share their faith with them, furthermore they should have full confidence that God is sovereign in the situation and whatever happens they have nothing to fear. It is preposterous to think that the Creator of the universe is in command of every aspect of your life but also think that men of a different faith are a threat to you.
Now don't get us wrong; we do feel that cultural sensitivity is important for Christian missionaries (and for that matter all of us regardless of faith). The Apostle Paul displayed this principal when he gave his message on Mars Hill; during which he spoke at length about the culture of the Greeks and then presented the gospel in the context of that culture. So don't feel like we are two American Christians that just want to run around the world tearing down mosques and screaming the gospel at people, because that is the opposite of what we are trying to say.
What it comes down to is this: people of different faiths will naturally be opposed to each other, and that is fine, but sometimes that opposition can become angry and even violent and that sucks but it happens. Christians however, cannot let the actions of some people deter them from helping to bring people across the globe to Salvation through Jesus Christ.
Showing posts with label Christians. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Christians. Show all posts
Friday, August 17, 2007
Adam and Jeremy Say: Shalom
Interesting article on Relevant's website about what boils down to the concept of world peace and the practicle steps Christians should be taking towards that end.
Thursday, May 31, 2007
Adam and Jeremy Say: People Hate Us and Liberty
Adam: So I was on this guys blog today (we will leave it nameless) and the whole thing was devoted to how he hated Dr. Falwell and how evil Dr. Falwell was; you know the routine, but then the guy gets all angry about Liberty... he calls us fools for attending the school and says that we are buying into lies and making the world a worse place...
Why are people ignorant like that? Why do they stereotype and make ad homenum attacks on Liberty and its students? Sure some people from LU suck, but so that‘s just the way the world works... take homosexuals for example (since that seems to be a flash point in the Liberty discussions) most people who are gay are pretty normal... but then there are some who feel the need to crude and brash... like not only am I gay but I am also flamboyant and shameless and I want to force you to accept me because I am gay in all my over the top glory... okay... glad to hear your gay... but I have a thing against assless chaps... not against you just the fact that you and your partner are walking around in assless chaps... Am I crazy... am I missing something?
Jeremy: My initial reaction to this kind of persecution is to fight back and be hateful towards them. “They suck, and are stupid and ignorant.” Then my thinking changes just a bit towards, “hey, if they want to make themselves look like a big jerks then let them.” I think rational people will determine that they have crossed the line socially, and then judge their comments accordingly. Of course, Jerry at times "crossed the line socially", but he was quick to either apologize or explain himself.
HOWEVER
That of course doesn't give these jerks the right to go ahead and do the same thing back. In the great words of Derek Webb: "an eye for an eye will never satisfy" Any who, we can’t stop people from being stupid and making dumb comments like that, and I don't think we should fight back and come up with reasons justifying why we are right and they are wrong...even though it seems easy. People are always going to be ignorant, and people are always going to persecute you for loving Jesus (John 15:18-26)Oh well....
Adam: You are right... but I think when Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek, He is not telling us to ignore it, but telling us to respond to it respectfully, Rob Bell talked about how culturally Jesus was telling his followers to stand up for themselves but not to be disrespectful... I think it is incumbent on us to love those who hate us, and to stand up and tell them that. "Hey I think you are wrong, and I don’t like what you said, but I love you and want to understand what causes your hate."
Jeremy: I think we may have brushed on this topic before. I hate being taken advantage of and being picked on for stupid stuff, but I don't really know where to draw the line on fighting back and standing up for myself.
I think you make a very good point, and if we could pull some scripture together to back that up, that would be cool. Did Mr. Bell reference any verses?
It’s like on one hand you have the homeless guy who sits at the intersections and begs for money knowing that he could make 10 bucks an hour just because people are nice. I feel like the homeless dude is taking advantage of people like that, and I don't want to give them money, but Jesus says to give to the poor. And then there are those jerks who think they can just slander Christians verbally as much as they want because they know we are nice and won’t hate them back.
Adam: In essence Jesus told Peter that he is to forgive unconditionally and forever. However, Jesus also told his disciples that unlike Moses they should turn the other cheek. Was he telling them to be push-overs? On the surface you would think that means that He is saying we should let ourselves be walked over, but there is more to the story. Jesus is preaching to believers in Jerusalem around 30 AD or so and because of that there are context clues in the culture of the time that help us to better understand what He was saying.... this may take a bit of explaining but I think it is cool when you hear it out...
So before the advent of modern plumbing many cultures had sanitary rules about what hand to use in restroom activities and what hand to use in every day life. This is still the case in places like rural India. In Israel the rule was that you used your left hand for your restroom duties and your right for everything else (eating, handshaking whatever.) This is important because this would mean that if someone were to strike a cheek they would use their right hand to strike your left cheek... try it at home... but then if you turn your right cheek to them it becomes impossible for them to strike you with their right hand, in fact the really only way to do it would be with your left, but here is the rub... in that culture using the left hand was severely frowned upon and would be considered shameful, and you can probably guess that at that time shame was a big deal (yeah shame only died about ten years ago) so what Jesus is saying is take it, be forgiving but take it standing up... they hit you then you stand up turn the other cheek and say alright you want to hit me then why don’t you hit me here too... obviously those who are truly evil would do it, but in reality Jesus was espousing a form of non-violent civil disobedience... sound familiar(MLKJ)? So while Jesus obviously teaches us to forgive... I think at the same time He is not telling us to get walked on... do you know what I am saying?... now the part that hangs me up... what is the practical interpretation of this in our modern culture?
Jeremy: I was looking at different translations for that passage of scripture.The Message is a bit interesting:"...Love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer for that person. If someone slaps you in the face, stand there and take it. If someone grabs your shirt, gift-wrap your best coat and make a present of it. If someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. No more tit-for-tat stuff. Live generously...
Adam: So maybe our best response is this... "Thank You for hating us because we believe in a risen savior and the led us to attend school at Liberty University, which was founded by Dr. Jerry Falwell. We are sorry that our schooling upsets you, and we hope that we change your mind in the future." Does that seem like a logical and loving response... or is it too jerky?
Jeremy: Maybe a bit too jerky and sarcastic. I don't think I would really thank someone for hating me.
Adam: Yeah... but How do you stand up for yourself while still being Loving?
Jeremy: That is the question we are trying to answer, huh? See that's where I don't know where to draw the line, and I think it's a case by case basis. I mean you have to react to people differently. All people accept love in different ways, so I think whatever's best for the situation, but again....I don't necessarily know how to do it. Sometimes I’ll instinctively(or holy spirit led) react and say things that I had no idea where they came from, and later ill be like, "holy sweet!, how did I come up with that?" truth is, it was probably the holy spirit taking over my body and using it and I had nothing to do with it.
Adam: I hear what you are saying about the Holy Spirit guiding us, and I agree. I mean really the point is our sinful selves want to get ego stuck up in it, but in reality its like Peter said, you will be persecuted for your faith and you should consider it a blessing. The real point is that we need to rely on the Grace of God to guide us and we need focus on his peace instead trying to make our own... That's just what I think.
Jeremy: You pretty much summed it up, so I don’t have much thought in addition to that. I was thinking about how different people need to be loved differently, and how "tough love" is really the best kind for some people. I was also thinking about how "being nice" and "being loving" may not necessarily be the same thing. I’m not sure exactly where that fits in the thing with the deal, but you know what I’m saying.
Why are people ignorant like that? Why do they stereotype and make ad homenum attacks on Liberty and its students? Sure some people from LU suck, but so that‘s just the way the world works... take homosexuals for example (since that seems to be a flash point in the Liberty discussions) most people who are gay are pretty normal... but then there are some who feel the need to crude and brash... like not only am I gay but I am also flamboyant and shameless and I want to force you to accept me because I am gay in all my over the top glory... okay... glad to hear your gay... but I have a thing against assless chaps... not against you just the fact that you and your partner are walking around in assless chaps... Am I crazy... am I missing something?
Jeremy: My initial reaction to this kind of persecution is to fight back and be hateful towards them. “They suck, and are stupid and ignorant.” Then my thinking changes just a bit towards, “hey, if they want to make themselves look like a big jerks then let them.” I think rational people will determine that they have crossed the line socially, and then judge their comments accordingly. Of course, Jerry at times "crossed the line socially", but he was quick to either apologize or explain himself.
HOWEVER
That of course doesn't give these jerks the right to go ahead and do the same thing back. In the great words of Derek Webb: "an eye for an eye will never satisfy" Any who, we can’t stop people from being stupid and making dumb comments like that, and I don't think we should fight back and come up with reasons justifying why we are right and they are wrong...even though it seems easy. People are always going to be ignorant, and people are always going to persecute you for loving Jesus (John 15:18-26)Oh well....
Adam: You are right... but I think when Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek, He is not telling us to ignore it, but telling us to respond to it respectfully, Rob Bell talked about how culturally Jesus was telling his followers to stand up for themselves but not to be disrespectful... I think it is incumbent on us to love those who hate us, and to stand up and tell them that. "Hey I think you are wrong, and I don’t like what you said, but I love you and want to understand what causes your hate."
Jeremy: I think we may have brushed on this topic before. I hate being taken advantage of and being picked on for stupid stuff, but I don't really know where to draw the line on fighting back and standing up for myself.
I think you make a very good point, and if we could pull some scripture together to back that up, that would be cool. Did Mr. Bell reference any verses?
It’s like on one hand you have the homeless guy who sits at the intersections and begs for money knowing that he could make 10 bucks an hour just because people are nice. I feel like the homeless dude is taking advantage of people like that, and I don't want to give them money, but Jesus says to give to the poor. And then there are those jerks who think they can just slander Christians verbally as much as they want because they know we are nice and won’t hate them back.
Adam: In essence Jesus told Peter that he is to forgive unconditionally and forever. However, Jesus also told his disciples that unlike Moses they should turn the other cheek. Was he telling them to be push-overs? On the surface you would think that means that He is saying we should let ourselves be walked over, but there is more to the story. Jesus is preaching to believers in Jerusalem around 30 AD or so and because of that there are context clues in the culture of the time that help us to better understand what He was saying.... this may take a bit of explaining but I think it is cool when you hear it out...
So before the advent of modern plumbing many cultures had sanitary rules about what hand to use in restroom activities and what hand to use in every day life. This is still the case in places like rural India. In Israel the rule was that you used your left hand for your restroom duties and your right for everything else (eating, handshaking whatever.) This is important because this would mean that if someone were to strike a cheek they would use their right hand to strike your left cheek... try it at home... but then if you turn your right cheek to them it becomes impossible for them to strike you with their right hand, in fact the really only way to do it would be with your left, but here is the rub... in that culture using the left hand was severely frowned upon and would be considered shameful, and you can probably guess that at that time shame was a big deal (yeah shame only died about ten years ago) so what Jesus is saying is take it, be forgiving but take it standing up... they hit you then you stand up turn the other cheek and say alright you want to hit me then why don’t you hit me here too... obviously those who are truly evil would do it, but in reality Jesus was espousing a form of non-violent civil disobedience... sound familiar(MLKJ)? So while Jesus obviously teaches us to forgive... I think at the same time He is not telling us to get walked on... do you know what I am saying?... now the part that hangs me up... what is the practical interpretation of this in our modern culture?
Jeremy: I was looking at different translations for that passage of scripture.The Message is a bit interesting:"...Love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer for that person. If someone slaps you in the face, stand there and take it. If someone grabs your shirt, gift-wrap your best coat and make a present of it. If someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. No more tit-for-tat stuff. Live generously...
Adam: So maybe our best response is this... "Thank You for hating us because we believe in a risen savior and the led us to attend school at Liberty University, which was founded by Dr. Jerry Falwell. We are sorry that our schooling upsets you, and we hope that we change your mind in the future." Does that seem like a logical and loving response... or is it too jerky?
Jeremy: Maybe a bit too jerky and sarcastic. I don't think I would really thank someone for hating me.
Adam: Yeah... but How do you stand up for yourself while still being Loving?
Jeremy: That is the question we are trying to answer, huh? See that's where I don't know where to draw the line, and I think it's a case by case basis. I mean you have to react to people differently. All people accept love in different ways, so I think whatever's best for the situation, but again....I don't necessarily know how to do it. Sometimes I’ll instinctively(or holy spirit led) react and say things that I had no idea where they came from, and later ill be like, "holy sweet!, how did I come up with that?" truth is, it was probably the holy spirit taking over my body and using it and I had nothing to do with it.
Adam: I hear what you are saying about the Holy Spirit guiding us, and I agree. I mean really the point is our sinful selves want to get ego stuck up in it, but in reality its like Peter said, you will be persecuted for your faith and you should consider it a blessing. The real point is that we need to rely on the Grace of God to guide us and we need focus on his peace instead trying to make our own... That's just what I think.
Jeremy: You pretty much summed it up, so I don’t have much thought in addition to that. I was thinking about how different people need to be loved differently, and how "tough love" is really the best kind for some people. I was also thinking about how "being nice" and "being loving" may not necessarily be the same thing. I’m not sure exactly where that fits in the thing with the deal, but you know what I’m saying.
Monday, March 26, 2007
Adam and Jeremy Say: Faith Fundamentally
Adam:
I read a rant in Seth Godin's book, "Small is the New Big," today that maligned fundamentalist and tried to marginalize their beliefs by calling them superstitious and equating them to pigeons. This was sort of surprising because Godin normally commentates on "out of the box" business thinking and not on religious beliefs. Now to be fair he framed the whole argument against fundamentalist by pointing directly at the world of business but he did his best to let it be known that he felt the same ill will towards religious fundamentalist.
I say all of this just to give you some background to the line of thought that ran through my head after reading this rant. Godin made it seem that the best way to handle fundamentalist would be to "rationally" question the faith that has led them to be fundamental on any point. In respect to me and Jeremy we are most often called fundamental when it comes to our faith in Jesus Christ as the sole Son of God and Savior of mankind. Does this make us fundamentalist who need be questioned into rationalizing our faith until we finally give up on God all together and admit that man is the greatest being in the universe and deserves all the praise for what he has accomplished? No it just means that I have a faith that guides my actions and thoughts; however, in our society we have allowed labels like fundamentalist and evangelical stunt our thinking about what a person who is labeled one of the terms actually is. For instance Jeremy and I are both Christians, but Jeremy is a capitalist hippy and I am a socialist. Does that fit into the label of fundamentalist? Or evangelical? I think it is interesting how excited the media gets when an evangelical pastor decides to crusade against global warming or poverty or aids... its like just because this type of activism does not fit into the stereotype that society has labeled "Christian" it is suddenly news... never mind that Jesus commanded us to care for the poor and sick... forget that God called us to be good stewards of the planet! Honestly most people go around thinking that Christians are a people who follow this giant list of "Do Not's" Like Do not drink, do not lie, do not cheat, do not kill, do not have an affair with neighbors wife, but in actuality the Christian Faith is a list of "Do's" Jesus said the two greatest commandments are to Love God and Love Others (the Adam paraphrase.) What in that sounds like do not in that? It's Do! Do love your neighbor as yourself, Do watch after the widowed and the orphaned, Do unto others what you would have them do to you. Of course this all sounds like gibberish if do not have a genuine faith in Jesus Christ, because it is through that faith that you truly feel a desire to please God and to do what is right in God's eyes and not your own, but that's okay, because we all start at that point.
So if you want to call me a fundamentalist, and you want to question what I believe please do so. I have no problem with that, but please don't try to hang so bogus stereotype on me when you start labeling me. Jeremy and I would love to tell you what being a Christian personally means to us. I would love to talk about whatever accusation or hang up you have about the faith I hold, but please do not come in with a big long list of preconceived notions... yes I went to a Bible college and yes I am opposed to abortion, and yes I do not support homosexuality, evolution, alcoholism or any other type of addiction, but I do support gun control, my wife and I regularly support environmental causes and the arts with our money and patronage, I have been known to smoke a cigar from time to time, and ever once in a while I may utter a curse word, and probably most shocking... I regularly listen to NPR. So let's throw out all the labels and the negativity and just sit down and talk like civilized adults.
Jeremy:
I completely agree with your thoughts. I think one thing the world gets confused about it is, why do some Christians think its ok to smoke a cigar and then other they think its wrong. Obviously there are many different fundamentalist Christians out there, and when we all start contradicting each other, the world doesn't really buy that. I mean another "do" of the Christian faith is to "do be unified as a body", and when we are not, that just makes us look like hypocrites. Now since everybody in the world is a hypocrite, I don't think that is really a good argument anymore for not wanting to believe something. Everyone has something they strongly believe in and have compromised that belief at some point.
All to say: I think our belief system is set up to still function even with some us thinking its ok to drink and not get drunk while others think it’s wrong to drink. The most important thing we need to agree and be "unified" on the foundational beliefs you were talking about: love your God; love your neighbor, etc.
I read a rant in Seth Godin's book, "Small is the New Big," today that maligned fundamentalist and tried to marginalize their beliefs by calling them superstitious and equating them to pigeons. This was sort of surprising because Godin normally commentates on "out of the box" business thinking and not on religious beliefs. Now to be fair he framed the whole argument against fundamentalist by pointing directly at the world of business but he did his best to let it be known that he felt the same ill will towards religious fundamentalist.
I say all of this just to give you some background to the line of thought that ran through my head after reading this rant. Godin made it seem that the best way to handle fundamentalist would be to "rationally" question the faith that has led them to be fundamental on any point. In respect to me and Jeremy we are most often called fundamental when it comes to our faith in Jesus Christ as the sole Son of God and Savior of mankind. Does this make us fundamentalist who need be questioned into rationalizing our faith until we finally give up on God all together and admit that man is the greatest being in the universe and deserves all the praise for what he has accomplished? No it just means that I have a faith that guides my actions and thoughts; however, in our society we have allowed labels like fundamentalist and evangelical stunt our thinking about what a person who is labeled one of the terms actually is. For instance Jeremy and I are both Christians, but Jeremy is a capitalist hippy and I am a socialist. Does that fit into the label of fundamentalist? Or evangelical? I think it is interesting how excited the media gets when an evangelical pastor decides to crusade against global warming or poverty or aids... its like just because this type of activism does not fit into the stereotype that society has labeled "Christian" it is suddenly news... never mind that Jesus commanded us to care for the poor and sick... forget that God called us to be good stewards of the planet! Honestly most people go around thinking that Christians are a people who follow this giant list of "Do Not's" Like Do not drink, do not lie, do not cheat, do not kill, do not have an affair with neighbors wife, but in actuality the Christian Faith is a list of "Do's" Jesus said the two greatest commandments are to Love God and Love Others (the Adam paraphrase.) What in that sounds like do not in that? It's Do! Do love your neighbor as yourself, Do watch after the widowed and the orphaned, Do unto others what you would have them do to you. Of course this all sounds like gibberish if do not have a genuine faith in Jesus Christ, because it is through that faith that you truly feel a desire to please God and to do what is right in God's eyes and not your own, but that's okay, because we all start at that point.
So if you want to call me a fundamentalist, and you want to question what I believe please do so. I have no problem with that, but please don't try to hang so bogus stereotype on me when you start labeling me. Jeremy and I would love to tell you what being a Christian personally means to us. I would love to talk about whatever accusation or hang up you have about the faith I hold, but please do not come in with a big long list of preconceived notions... yes I went to a Bible college and yes I am opposed to abortion, and yes I do not support homosexuality, evolution, alcoholism or any other type of addiction, but I do support gun control, my wife and I regularly support environmental causes and the arts with our money and patronage, I have been known to smoke a cigar from time to time, and ever once in a while I may utter a curse word, and probably most shocking... I regularly listen to NPR. So let's throw out all the labels and the negativity and just sit down and talk like civilized adults.
Jeremy:
I completely agree with your thoughts. I think one thing the world gets confused about it is, why do some Christians think its ok to smoke a cigar and then other they think its wrong. Obviously there are many different fundamentalist Christians out there, and when we all start contradicting each other, the world doesn't really buy that. I mean another "do" of the Christian faith is to "do be unified as a body", and when we are not, that just makes us look like hypocrites. Now since everybody in the world is a hypocrite, I don't think that is really a good argument anymore for not wanting to believe something. Everyone has something they strongly believe in and have compromised that belief at some point.
All to say: I think our belief system is set up to still function even with some us thinking its ok to drink and not get drunk while others think it’s wrong to drink. The most important thing we need to agree and be "unified" on the foundational beliefs you were talking about: love your God; love your neighbor, etc.
Wednesday, February 21, 2007
Adam and Jeremy Say: Vote for God and He will cut taxes
So Berg got an email forward the other day that touted the blatant Christian values that supposedly correspond to the thirteen folds in a American Flag during a military flag folding. The email was littered with images like this
And touted values like eternal life, and Christian Honor; well you can read the whole thing here at the Snopes website who, as it turns out, have proven that the whole thing is nothing more than an urban legend.
The whole thing got me thinking about the issue of national allegiance and religious allegiance... I mean this email is a perfect example of religious zealotry gone way out to pasture, but it highlights a group of religious people who want to make God a political figure who should be elected President of the Untied States, and I have a problem with this.
I mean as an American I am happy to be part of this country, and I do feel blessed but too often I find Americans have this Hebrew complex... like they want to be God's Chosen people, and in fact only the Israelites where chosen as a people/nation specially by to God to represent Him. Now that doesn't mean we are not special because I mos def think that God gave His Son Jesus to "the world" so that none "shall perish but have eternal life;" I just happen to be of the opinion that God sent Jesus to bless the entier world with His message of Love and the gift of Eternal Life... That's why I got so stoked a few weeks ago when I found this bumpers sticker online...
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